Dr. Amr Darrag, former Minister of International Cooperation and Planning during the Morsi administration and prominent member of the Freedom and Justice Party, spoke with AWR about the political developments in Egypt and the Muslim Brotherhood position on negotiations with the current government for a political solution to the current crisis Egypt is in. Also, in an earlier interview in July 2013, Dr. Darrag stated that he believes that the “deep state,” denoting the institutional forces in Egypt, are doing everything in their power to get rid of the Muslim Brotherhood permanently. He denied that the Muslim Brotherhood has anything to do with the attacks on the churches. Of course the view expressed here is that of the Freedom and Justice Party. Arab-West Report would also like to present an in-depth interview offering a different view.

An Undemocratic Coup

Dr. Darrag argues that 30th of June demonstrations were followed by a coup d’etat orchestrated by the military. After the ongoing the mishaps of the military, he is convinced that Egyptians will continue to realize that that the removal of President Morsi is in fact a coup: “I am sure that one day the majority will join this in the same way that happened on January 25th.” The reason for Dr. Darrag’s faith that the people will side with the Muslim Brotherhood is, as he says, that the facts are piling up. Peaceful demonstrators, he says, are being shot at, innocent people are put in jail; one undemocratic step is taken after the other. As this pattern continues, Amr Darrag sees that every day more and more Egyptians are turning against the military and the current government to join the side of the protesters.

In continuation of these acts, Dr. Darrag doubts that that there will be elections for a new president, parliament, and constitutional referendum. If elections or a referendum do happen however, Dr. Darrag told us that the Brotherhood and the Freedom and Justice Party will only decide then whether they will participate or not. While some members argue for a boycott, others argue that with the amount of support the Brotherhood has now, such elections or a referendum could mean the end of the coup. As for now, it is still too early to decide whether or not to participate in elections.

The “Deep State” Strikes Back

Darrag is convinced that ever since the January 25 Revolution the “deep state” has been trying to undermine any efforts for the establishment of a real democracy in Egypt. He sees indications to that effect in black campaigning and for example orchestrating the gas crisis a few days before June 30thin order to blame the Freedom and Justice Party for all ills befalling Egypt. “We are the ones that are being attacked,” Dr. Darrag said in the July 22 interview. Darrag sticks to this conviction in his second interview in October, referring to the unwillingness of other parties to cooperate during the period Morsi was in office. He believes all efforts were made to make Morsi fail and justify the deposal of Morsi and for the “deep state” to return to power: “So we are again sure that we are having the Mubarak state back, fully back in the picture, and in fact even worse”.

Possibility of Negotiations

Dr. Darrag said that reconciliation efforts between the Freedom and Justice Party and the military and the current government cannot bear fruit. He argues, in the current environment and distrust there can be no negotiations. In July he remarked on the same issue, saying that while Muhammad Morsi and Muslim Brotherhood leaders were in jail, invitations by the military for him to come and talk seemed “like pointing a gun at my head and saying: ‘Why don’t we discuss?’.” In October he insists on the same principles; arguing that the complete exclusion and demonization of the Muslim Brotherhood does not open up an environment for any serious negotiations.

Dr. Darrag stated that the Brotherhood is open for negotiations nevertheless, provided that several key demands are met. Among these key demands are what Dr. Darrag calls, “confidence-building measures”; meaning that some steps need to be taken towards the Muslim Brotherhood and Freedom and Justice Party in order to create an environment of mutual trust. This includes abstaining from calling the Muslim Brotherhood terrorists, freeing their leaders and people from jail, allowing them to open up their media outlets again and allowing peaceful demonstrations. Furthermore they demand either a neutral Egyptian mediator or several mediators chosen from both the Brotherhood and the government’s side. As for now, almost four months after the removal of president Morsi, none of these demands have been met and thus there is no window yet to start any serious negotiations, according to Dr. Darrag.

Dr. Amr Darrag and the Freedom of Justice Party retain their conditions, as they did in July. The reinstatement of legitimacy and the democratic path are key issues for them as a prerequisite to work together with the military and the current government.　

Attacks against Christians

Dr. Darrag denies that Muslim Brothers have been guilty of the violence against Christians: “It was proven, even by the security forces, that many of the attacks that took place against the churches were done by thugs.” About the shooting at the Christian wedding in Warraq October 20th, Dr. Darrag told us: “This incident took place on the church and the next morning the government commented and says that we are going to issue the law on the terrorism. I mean, this cannot happen right? I cannot see this as a coincidence. Why didn’t this come last week or two weeks ago? This is something that is very suspicious.” Al-Ahram, however, reported about this law on October 16. Thus, unlike Dr. Darrag told us, before the shooting, but no doubt this and other violence will be used to convince Egyptians of the need for such a law.[1] “There is a strong possibility,” Dr. Darrag said, “[...] we have seen this many times by the security forces and there is no reason to believe that they have abandoned this kind of behavior”.

The cause of the wave of violence against Christians after the 30th of June is not, according to Dr. Darrag, to be found in the Muslim Brotherhood, but in the fact that Pope Tawadros II (together with the Shaykh of the Azhar) sat beside al-Sisi during the TV statement saying that Morsi had been deposed. Endorsing the ousting of Morsi and the military rule in this way can only lead to the logical conclusion for ordinary Egyptians that Christians are part of the problem of the country and thus lead to violence and suspicion against the Christian community. The act of appearing on the television screen next to al-Sisi led to their disgrace and is an illegitimate mix of politics and religion.

An Apology for Previous Mistakes?

Dr. Darrag does not deny the fact that the Brotherhood has made mistakes. He denies the need to apologize unless the other parties also apologize for their mistakes: “This has to come through a process [in which] all political forces, if they want to learn from the past and [their] experiences, acknowledge their mistakes”... “It doesn’t make sense to ask one side to keep apologizing and apologizing and apologizing.”

The complete transcripts of the interviews are now accessible on our website: July 22, 2013 andOctober 22, 2013. For another article on the interviews with Amr Darrag also read: "Nederlands Dagblad reports about the AWR interview with Dr. Amr Darrag" by Cornelis Hulsman (November 4, 2013). For a critique on the interviews read: ''Ra'id al-Sharqawi responds to Dr. Amr Darrag'' by Ra'id al-Sharqawi (November 2013).

Esther Schoorel

Research Intern

Arab-West Report

[1] “Egypt's Justice Ministry to draft anti-terrorism law,” Al-Ahram, October 16, 2013, Accessed 3 November, 2013,http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/84086/Egypt/Politics-/Egypts-Justice-Ministry-to-draft-antiterrorism-law.aspx.