Background:

Father Christiaan van Nispen tot Sevenaer (15.3.1938 – 12.5.2016), often known as Father van Nispen, was a Jesuit priest, who is strongly involved in dialogue with Muslims. He says not to feel at all oppressed as a Christian in Egypt by Islamic militant groups, but argues instead that the militant groups target the government. Nevertheless, there are visible trails of discrimination, for instance, obtaining a permit to build churches is not an easy matter.

Several Islamic scholars and clerics are mentioned in the interview, including the liberal Naṣr Ḥāmid Abū Zayd and the Islamist Yūsuf al-Badrī. Van Nispen believes that al-Badrī has a tendency of oversimplifying Christian-related issues, although he mentions to have no hard feelings towards the Islamic cleric. Van Nispen, furthermore, explains that he would not dismiss dialogue with al-Badrī, but believes that a certain conscious state of mind is necessary to detect the bias in the cleric’s standpoints.

Side A:

Despite restrictions in the church-building law, Father van Nispen says that in the past few years there have been many churches built anyhow, and mentions that aside from Christians, many Muslims oppose the law as well. It is, therefore, not so much a matter of discrimination in society, but rather a matter of discrepancies in the constitution. Coptic Christians, according to van Nispen, do not wish to be labelled as a minority but rather be an integrated part of society.

When Christians desire to convert to Islam, they may go to the head of police to make a mahdar that they wish to convert and must meet once with a priest to complete the process. Sometimes, Christians go to other institutions such as the Azhar to convert then meeting with the priest is often not of relevance. Freedom of religion in Egypt does not do justice by the term. Many Christians who convert to Islam are welcomed, but vice versa it is a frowned upon phenomenon. Many Muslims converting to Christianity have been arrested, although the church does attempt on compromising with the government in protection of these citizens.

Moreover, Father van Nispen argues that there are several groups of people in Egypt who are partisans of al-Badrī, who share his views such as that Islam does not oppress and needs to play a bigger role in Egyptian society and have God’s will present in society. Regardless, there are also many who are appalled by al-Badrī’s aggressive attitude. It is also believed that this aggression is what links al-Badrī with al-Jamāʿah al-Islāmīyyah. Thereby, van Nispen argues that al-Badrī stimulates the discrimination of Christians, as he argues that a church must be built away so many metres from a mosque, but vice versa a mosque may be placed right next to a church.

Al-Badrī’s mind-set is one that represents a portion of the Egyptian Muslim population as he thinks a lot in stereotypes that are commonly shared, according to Father van Nispen. Al-Badrī believes that the 21^st century will be the century of Islam. Islam is the ideal and last form of religion, a perfect synthesis, an idea, again, shared by many. Abū Zayd, too believes that the Qurʾān is of divine origin, though in contrast to al-Badrī, places great value on research.

Van Nispen argues that while he does not feel oppressed as a Christian in Egypt, does find that a few fundamental Islamic groups such as al-Jamāʿah al-Islāmīyyah, hold aggressive attitudes towards Christians. Whereby Christians are verbally abused, pressured and in some areas in Southern Egypt even attacked. In Islamic theology, Daʿwah is the principle of fulfilling the mission of inviting both Muslims and non-Muslims to understand the worship of Allah as expressed in the Qurʾān, and to inform them about the Sunnah of the Prophet Muḥammad. Van Nispen says that some Islamic clerics and fundamental groups neglect the inviting aspect of Daʿwah, and use aggression instead.

Side B:

Continuation of Side A:

Father van Nispen furthermore discusses the issue of oppressed Christian girls who are often married to Muslims in order to convert them to Islam, and once this is fulfilled, the girls are often left deserted. Van Nispen says kidnappings happen occasionally as well and it is certainly not an issue which should be put aside, but it should also not be exaggerated and generalised over the entire Christian demographic. Egypt was originally a Christian nation, but this Christian majority shifted to a Muslim majority the end of the 9^th century. It reached the current population of Christians ±10% during the 14^th century and remained stable ever since, according to van Nispen. Due to the relatively large population of Christians in Egypt in comparison to other Arab/Middle-Eastern countries (with the exception of Lebanon), the issue of church buildings is, of course, a significant one. Van Nispen argues that al-Badrī speaks of church building as if there is no issue of concern. He neglects the fact that Christians in Egypt need to request a special, presidential permit to build churches. This is not the case for the building of mosques. It is not to deny that there are areas where there are a number of churches, while in other areas there are none. These areas might be in need of churches but this is thus difficult to achieve. Father van Nispen argues that there is an oversimplification from al-Badrī’s side, a pattern that has been consistent of Christian history for over 100 years.

Furthermore, al-Badrī claims credit in the name of Islam for a few converted Christians who according to van Nispen have in fact not converted at all: an example being an Austrian Catholic priest who specialised in Islamic mysticism. The speculations of the priest’s conversion may have risen from the priest’s open sympathy towards Islam and van Nispen argues that al-Badrī took advantage of this. Additionally, al-Badrī’s victimisation of Muslims is not much appreciated by van Nispen and disputes that al-Badrī drags the numbers out of proportion, while simultaneously neglecting wars of Muslims fighting Muslims such as in Algeria and Somalia. Other wars, such as the one in Bosnia, are as stated by van Nispen, based on ethnic reasons and not religious motives. Al-Badrī also fails to mention the accumulating support of the Bosnian Christians for the Muslims in the war. The effects of the Bosnian war on Copts in Egypt are not that big says van Nispen, apart from al-Jamāʿah al-Islāmīyyah’s kidnappings of Christians who justify their actions by claiming vengeance for the countless of killings of Bosnian Muslims.