Q: Can you explain to me about your learning centers?
A: Well, I have two branches, one here in Maadi and one in Ain-Shams. I decided to open my own institution in 2017 and I opened first in Ain-Shams. Before this, I used to be a teacher at Modern Education Center for Sudanese in Matariya. After I finished high school in Sudan I went to Cairo and started to teach at the Modern Education Center, while I was at the same time a member of the Adventist Church. I participated in the entire process to try to make the Matariya school a churched-run center. We asked for permission, we wrote a letter to the headquarter of the Adventist Church in Egypt and they gave us the approval to use the building. We started this new project in 2003. I was there until 2007. I used to live in the building. In 2007 I left for college, studying Sociology in the Faculty of Arts at Cairo University. And then when I graduated in 2011, I went home to Juba, but you know in 2013 the war broke out and I came again to Egypt to work in Matariya. I was shocked. When I used to be in Matariya there were just three classes, KG, grade 1, and 2,3 but in 2015 they had many many students and also in all levels. In 2017 I decided to go to the South Sudanese Embassy and I told them, that I wish to open a school that applies the South Sudanese national curriculum. This is the syllabus that we are doing now. For the year 2023-2024, we are planning to have students sitting for the South Sudanese exams, so you can see that from grade 1 to grade 7 the students are already following South-Sudanese books in all subjects. I first tried to do it with three subjects only, Social Studies which is history, and geograpand science, and when we test it was wonderful in 2019 we applied the curriculum to all the subjects; 5 subjects, social studies, CRE, and science, and now currently we are applying the South Sudanese curriculum.
Q: Which are the main reasons?
A: First of all, the translation. The books are written in Arabic and the Comboni school translated them into English. And the translations are really bad, there are a lot of errors, and I knew that the books on South Sudan were good. There are no English errors. They are even funded by USAID and UNICEF, so they supervised them. The second reason is we that are in Egypt and some people will return home, and they will learn about their country in the host country and when they come home they will know. And the third reason is the students are paying a lot of money, grade 8 pays 150$ and in senior three they pay 550$ for taking the exams for entering university. With the South-Sudanese exam the students paid less than 20$, you know in 2016-2017 and they already did the exam. In 2016 the prices of the exams became suddenly higher, and the senior 3 were supposed to pay 200$, so the South Sudanese teachers union gathered with the Embassy and the Embassy talked with the Ministry of Education in Juba, so the exam was sent to us with a flight. During the academic year 2016/2017 we had 190 students sitting for the senior 3 exams, and in the year 2017/2018, the exams came again. But the exam was no longer sent to Cairo because they saw that the results were so bad. For example, of the 190 students, only 24 passed. But we were happy and we even took the 24 and we gave them a scholarship. You know, the exam in South Sudan is much more difficult and requires more skills than the Sudanese exam. Our students were not trained and the Ministry of Education in Juba told us, before sending us the exams again that a condition for you is to let behind the Sudanese curriculum and the Comboni books and introduce the South-Sudanese books. And once the kids are prepared for that, we will bring again the exams. So that is what we did, everything started with the opening of Wadi el-Nil academy, a learning center in street 105 in Maadi. The founders are me, Albino [see the interview with Albino] and a guy called Joseph who is now in the US. And at that school, we decided to use the South Sudanese curriculum from grade 1 to grade 7, while seniors and grade 8 were using the Sudanese curriculum to make sure they could be prepared for the exams. So once a new school adapts the South Sudanese curriculum, it just needs to apply for it at the South Sudanese Embassy and they will register you as officially using it. Nowadays I can confirm that the schools that have applied for the South Sudanese curriculum are less than ten: Al-Shorouk, Wadi el-Nil, Matariya, Winners International School, Sudanese Child Care, Nile Modern Academy, Nile Friendship, and African Light.
Q: How do you apply to the South Sudanese curriculum?
A: I am the one in charge. It is very simple. For applying you need to contact me, we provide you the PDF with the books and you print them, we print them in color. Those are much better, they are supervised by USAID, and they provide funding.
Q: How many students do you have here?
A: We do not have secondary education here. We tried but it was difficult. To get someone to teach at the secondary level we ask them to bring their grade 8 exam with passing marks. We look for high grades in English and Maths because those are the most important ones. You cannot be weak in English if you are doing the Sudanese exam in English and we teach in English, and the same applies to Maths. The whole department of Science, the basis lies on Maths. So you can see that in our poster we have “secondary school” mentioned, but we were not able to find students who are eligible for joining secondary school. There is another factor, the number of students per class. The students willing to join secondary school were so few that we could count them on our fingers. How can you open a secondary class, where they have 21 subjects Which teachers are going to teach them? At least I should have 20 students in a class, and I also need to divide them into an arts and science section. We have never had a secondary level. So here in al-Shorouk, we have only 19 students, and in Ain-Shams I have 55. Here I have 4 classes for KG1 and KG2. At the beginning of the year, I had 16 but now in KG, I have only 12 because if parents do not pay school fees, the kids need to leave school. In grade 1, I had 7 at the moment of registration who passed the placement test, from those 7, 4 did not pay their school fees after three months. What they are supposed to do is that when they come to registration, they are supposed to pay the first semester, which is 60% of the total school fee of 3.800 EgP, that is 2.000 EgP. And then if they do not pay I register the name and I am flexible, I ask them to bring something every month, but if I see that there is nothing, I cannot have the kids at school.
Q: The students that you have in grade 8, where are they going to continue their education?
A: We have now 7 students doing grade 8, and if they pass we are happy to receive them in senior 1. But this is because they are my group, I have trained them, and I know that they are doing good. This will be the first year where we have students sitting for grade 8. This didn’t happen before, because look, the school was opened in 2017, and I started with my group in grade 1, and what I have been doing is maybe skipping with their some grades. For example, I directly took the group from grade 6 to grade 8. They never did grade 7, instead what I have done, is provide an intensive summer course, and I have done the same with all the other grades.
Q: How much do you pay for rent?
A: I pay 2.500 EgP plus water and electricity, it goes to something like 3.000 EgP every month. In Ain-Shams I pay 5.000 EgP but I have two floors. They used to take 400 EgP for water. I do not know why they are charging so much, the water is cheaper here. But our building is small.
Q: How many teachers do you have?
A: At the beginning, I had 6 teachers including me, but when the number of students was reduced we reduced this to just 3 teachers.
Q: And what about the teachers? How much do you pay them? How do you recruit them and under which requirements?
I opened the school in 2019/2020, during the COVID-19 pandemic we were not paying the teachers. We used to have five teachers and we were paying them 1.500 EgP per month. But now we are just paying to two teachers, so that means that the costs are 6.000 EgP per month just for the teachers, and I pay just two, I do not pay for myself. And in Ain-Shams I have five teachers. For finding the teachers we advertise on Facebook, on the South Sudanese Teachers Union web page or I also talk with other learning centers like they are my colleagues and I have a relation. For my learning center, it is a must for a teacher to have a university diploma. First of all, if they apply I will ask them to write a motivation letter telling why they want to work here and if they want to do it part-time or full-time. The letter also allows me to see the level of English of the teacher. The teacher must know that in this school we teach English so a good level of English is required, and finally, in the letter, the teacher must let us know what their interests are and in what subjects he or she would be willing to teach. Then I will also ask for a CV, in the CV I can easily see the experience, and for me, a requirement is to have, at least, three to five years of teaching experience.
Q: Do you have a waiting list?
A: There is not, because in our school we screen the students. We select them, I never take more than 60 students in a year. I just take the ones that are capable and I am really careful that there are not more than 16 students in a class.
Q: Do you have problems with the neighbors?
A: No, this is the only thing that I do not have. I tried to build a good relationship with them from the very beginning.
The parents of the children that go to Al-Shourouk created the ‘Al-Shourouk parents council.’ We even have a WhatsApp group constituted by 9, the same for the branch in Ain-Shams, this is a way of organization. We tell the parents to bring the children and to pick them off. I need to protect the kids. There are Sudanese gangs everywhere in Egypt. I remember in 2009 those gangs surrounded me on the street, I was coming back from doing a private lesson.
Q: Do you feed the kids?
A: No, eating and drinking are other issues. There is some food that children cannot take, like allergies. I just provide breakfast for the teachers.
Q: What is the procedure that you follow when a learning center is closed by the police?
A: We respect the law of the host country. If the Egyptian police come and decide to close our school, we will respect that but we will need to go to the South Sudanese Embassy and they will help us. This happened, for example, last month when the Good Shepherd was shut down. They contacted first the teachers union. In this teachers union, we have a committee of five. These are the people who organize everything and represent the whole teachers union. In this committee we have Albino from Wadi el-Nil, Peter Lubra is the head of the committee, and then we have Silvio Amun from Al-Maraffa who is the secretary, and then we have Joseph Lolika, who is the secretary general, and then I, Simon. I am an acting member, and finally, James Natalie who is the educational advisor for us. So when something happens we are the ones that go. Last month when the Good Shepherd was closed, they called Albino, and Albino contacted me. That was very simple, we gave the police the certificate of the Good Shepherd as a learning center recognized by the South Sudanese Embassy and under their protection. The South Sudanese Embassy also provided the police with a document confirming it.
Q: Envy Baptist, the secretary of the Cultural and Educational Attache Department at the South Sudanese Embassy in Cairo, told me that from 32 South-Sudanese learning centers, only 27 could be approved, why?
A: This is the work of the South Sudanese Embassy. There is a category that the embassy always applies. For example, as I am in an apartment with Egyptian neighbors and not in a villa or in an apartment that belongs to me completely, I will be cataloged at the South Sudanese Embassy under category B, but in the long run, the Embassy really wants me to find a villa and not stay in an apartment, so I must compromise. For example, for two years the South Sudanese Embassy came to visit, both the Teachers Union and the South Sudanese Embassy, and they cataloged me in category B. They accepted that but I needed to prove that I was putting a lot of effort into building a good relationship with the neighbors. The Embassy requires from learning centers some conditions in order to be recognized. Maybe those conditions do not need to be there at the moment of recognition, but there must be a compromise that slowly, slowly, efforts will be made for improvement. Another criterion is that, in the long term, you introduce the South Sudanese curriculum, so exams for South Sudan can be brought, for example, Innovation Academy still uses the Sudanese curriculum, but you see that the South Sudanese Embassy is waiting for them to implement the South-Sudanese one. Another criteria involved is having South Sudanese students as the majority, and the same applies to the teachers.
Q: Do you know what has happened to the remaining learning centers that were not recognized by the South Sudanese Embassy?
A: Look, the other centers are not recognized because they do not want to. They did not come to search us, but if they would come the South Sudanese Embassy would for sure recognize them. I am sure they know that we exist, but for different reasons, they decided not to come. For example, there is one school that is called Exile. It was opened by a South-Sudanese called Mr. Martin. The thing is that they had very very bad relations with the neighbors, they were always complaining. So one day, the neighbor woman came, she claimed the wall of the school and threw cold water on the children. At that time, there was a mother inside the building and she saw everything. So she went, she knocked on the door and threw also cold water on the Egyptian woman. They went to the police station, and at that point, Exile called us for help. And by that time the center was not recognized by the South Sudanese Embassy nor a member of the teachers union. But you know there were South Sudanese children and teachers and the head was South-Sudanese. So we helped them and they were recognized by the Teachers Union first and then by the Embassy. After this event, a representative of the Embassy came to visit the school. So the Embassy quickly sent an authorization letter for them, and the school was reopened. What I want to say is that in times of crisis, a school can be recognized. We really want to help and the Embassy also wants to help.
Q: How do the learning centers that are not recognized do the exams?
A: In 2011, when South Sudan became independent, Sudan told us that we were foreigners, and from 2012 we started to conduct the exams alone, and we must pay the fees.
There are three types of learning centers: First, schools that belong to the church like Sakakini and Matariya. It is the church owning the building, so those schools have two protections. The first one is the church, which has always been there for many many years, since the missionaries of the church, and the Egyptian government cannot do anything about this powerful institution, and the second protection that they have is that they function under the South Sudanese Teachers Union and Embassy. The second type of school is those that belong to the Embassy. The embassy has a diplomatic mission in Egypt, so we observe for example that the American Embassy owns different schools, brings their curriculum, and does their exams. So Americans can go to those schools, those schools are private.
Q: Is there a diplomatic mission school for the Sudanese or South Sudanese embassy?
A: Yes, in the Sudanese school, in 2007 there was no exam, but Sakakini was doing the mission. Children were learning but were not able to go to university because there was no national exam, except for those children joining Egyptian schools. In 2007 the Teachers Union sat down with the Embassy and asked them to bring the national exams, they agreed, and Noel and Natalie were going to Sudan. When they arrived they gave the petition letter to the Ministry of Education, and they agreed. Sudan wrote a covering letter, that the learning centers were part of Sudan, so they also deserved to do the exams. They bought the exams and they were doing it for both, Muslims and Christians in Sakakini. In 2008 they had their first exam. But in 2011, what happened? South Sudan became independent, so the Sudanese government came and they asked the Sudanese, do you want an examination center because you are refugees? And the Sudanese said, yes and then they created the Sudanese school under the Embassy of Sudan. They even have an officially recognized school. So most of the learning centers under the protection of the Sudanese Embassy are registering their children at this school to be able that they can do the exams. And the third type is we, the secular learning centers.
Q: And isn’t there a South Sudanese diplomatic mission school?
A: We asked our Embassy because they have the right to open it, but it still did not happen.
Q: Do you have donors?
A: No, the CRS used to give us funding, and help us with fixing facilities, but they stopped. I think it is because there were some learning centers missing the money, using it for another purpose, and this blocked the road and has affected negatively all the other learning centers that are committed to the real purpose. For example, we had the ESIP, a learning center in Ain-Shams that had funding from their friends in Australia, but the learning center closed, it was corrupted. I was in a meeting in September with CRS, I spoke things that day. I was telling them that I paid for the school during COVID-19, and that I had debts of 15.000 EgP caused by COVID-19. I told them that the 1.200 EgP that CRS gives to the children registered at a learning center is not enough, not even for paying the school fees. We cannot pay the salaries, anything. I blame them and the UN. It is not our responsibility to be in charge of the schools and give education to the refugees, it is the UNHCR. They should be giving good education to those kids. You know more than half of our students are holding the blue card, and they are not doing anything. At least, if you see that we are the ones doing it, give us support. Or maybe the UNHCR should be opening a school. If they do it, I swear to you that the teachers would be happy to go there and help them, even myself, I would work there. I do not know why they are not doing that. They have the money. The refugees are under the responsibility of the UNHCR, and it is the UNHCR that needs to give them an education. In South Sudan, we have refugee camps, and the government of South Sudan and the UNHCR collaborated for opening a school inside the camp. The UNHCR pays the teachers, the UNHCR brings the books, and the students in the refugee camp take the South Sudanese exams. If they do not have a camp at least UNHCR should give the refugees an education.
Even sometimes CRS is not paying the 1.200 EgP to all of the students. I have a case in my school, the student is holding the blue card, and the family came to me telling me that day at that time we have an appointment with CRS to apply for the money, and we need an authorization paper that confirms that we are learning in Al-Shorouk. I provided that document and CRS refused to give them the money. The name of the children is Júlia, Nomo, and Ingrid. I do not know why they are doing that. I think it is a bad organization and cooperation between CRS and UNHCR. For example, I know that the UNHCR gave tablets to some learning centers like Africa Hope and Little Step. They gave tablets to all those schools from KG to senior 3, that were having more than 300 students. That makes no sense. What is the difference? I have the same legal status as Little Step and my students are also refugees and they need also the tablets as much as other refugee kids need them in other schools. Why are they discriminating among the children?
