Background:
Emanuel Marx was an Israeli professor at Haifa University in Israel and director of the Israeli Academic Centre in Cairo during the 1990s. After the Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty was signed on 26 March 1979, the two countries agreed on establishing this center in Cairo as to foster better relations. The employees working at the center are no politicians, but rather academics and have made all efforts to stay away from Israeli politics which could have put a strain on Egypt-Israeli relations. The discussion between Cornelis Hulsman and Emanuel Marx is in regards to anti-Semitism in Egypt.
Side A:
Professor Marx speaks about anti-Semitic literature present in Egypt during the 1960s, but argues that although it was government sponsored, it did therefore not represent the Egyptian society. The anti-Semitic literature that was distributed in Egypt was government-inspired and even part of government policy, but it had very little to do with what was happening on the ground he argues. According to Professor Marx, the Minister of Information at that time; Muḥammad ʿAbd al-Qādir Ḥātim, controlled everything that concerned the press, even the many anti-Semitic publications.
Furthermore, Professor Marx argues that stereotypes of the Israelis are homogeneous; Israelis are aggressive, they are an expansive state, they are racist and so on. Marx says this is not anti-Semitic per se, but stereotypical as anti-Semitism is perceived by many as an illness so if one believes these stereotypes to be true, then it would not be right to call them anti-Semitic. Marx has been studying stereotypes for a long time and believes these are units of knowledge which are not necessarily wrong, as any item of knowledge is a stereotype. Stereotypes are based on a limited selection of facts and whenever one uses these stereotypes; they have no idea whether they are correct or incorrect, even when it is accepted by everyone, says Marx. For instance, that the Earth rotates around the sun is a stereotype that is accepted by everyone. It is a stereotype because if one believes it and cannot prove it, then as far as Professor Marx is concerned; it should be considered a stereotype. He even goes as far by saying that without stereotypes, one cannot survive because that is how knowledge is made up and without knowledge one cannot function in society.
One of the anti-Semitic books which was being distributed in Egypt at the time of the interview was the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Professor Marx believes that this book is anti-Semitic because it is directed targeted at a certain demographic group and nothing good was said about them purposely. When Egyptians speak about Israelis wanting to take over the Egyptian economy however; it is not perceived by Marx as anti-Semitic because this idea is based on widely-shared stereotypes that the Egyptians have internalized and thus have become part of their knowledge.
Despite of the stereotypical mind-sets some Egyptians hold of Israel, Israelis have become less and less important in the Egyptian press, says Marx. As Egypt is the most important country in terms of culturally affecting all other Arab countries, Egypt’s interest in Israel has decreased. There used to be many articles concerning Israel’s character as being uncivilized, immoral, constantly involved in every forgery and always involved in international politics while also supporting terrorists in Egypt. Professor Marx mentions that there was a point in 1993 (2 years prior to the interview) that practically all Egyptian newspapers wrote about Israel financing the anti-government forces in Egypt, which included extreme Islamists. This continued to go on until President Mubārak publicly declared that there is no truth in the newspaper articles and gave the press instructions to stop distributing deceptions about Israel. The anti-Semitic articles stopped overnight, except for the occasional bold statements against Israel in al-Shaʿb Newspaper, al-Quds al-ʿArabī Newspaper and Rose al-Yūsuf Magazine. However, Marx argues this is no longer the case. There is now the focused argument that Israel should join the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) and be faster in fixing the Palestinian question, although this is not anti-Semitic.
Side B:
Al-Shaʿb –the official newspaper of the Egyptian Islamic Labor Party – has not shown a trend of anti-Semitism for many months according to Marx. He believes that if the newspaper does not need to mention Israel, then they will not go out of their way to do so nonetheless. Marx believes that extremists in Egypt do not have time to criticize Israel because they are too busy with fighting their own government. There has been a basic change of attitude towards Israel since the 80s in Egypt, whereby the discussion of whether it is right to make peace with Israel or not has shifted to whether they should normalize relations with Israel. Some Egyptians believe they cannot normalize relations due to the occupation, others say they can normalize economic relations but not cultural and a few believe they should normalize relations because Egypt is a strong cultural power and there is nothing to be afraid of.
