As a Muslim, I have been deeply concerned about relations between Christians and Muslims in Egypt in light of the recent attacks against the Coptic community. In fact, in the wake of the Minya bus attack and the Palm Sunday church bombings, I felt that the Muslim community in Egypt wasn’t vocal enough, or seriously involved in repairing relations between the two faiths. So when Drs. Cornelis Hulsman informed me of the opportunity to interview Abuna Yo’annis and Sheikh Hamdi, two amazing men who truly embody Christian-Muslim understanding, I did not hesitate. Both men are living in the region from where the terrorism victims had come from. In addition to conducting the interview I was going to offer my condolences to the victims/martyrs’ families of Minya bus’ attack on the behalf of CAWU. Indeed, it was an opportunity for me to listen to people who have been directly affected by terrorism, in the midst of a community where both Christians and Muslims do their best to live in harmony.

Our journey began June 8 in the early morning at Ramsis train station in Cairo.  I was accompanied by Shen Shangyun, a Chinese Christian and graduate in Arabic literature who works on revising the Holy Family website of the Arab-West Foundation. I was very happy  that he could come with me, as he already knew Maghagha through his research on the Holy Family tradition. Maghagha is located in Minya Governorate, approximately three hours south of Cairo. Abuna Yo’annis was waiting for us at the train station; he welcomed us and took us with his car to the village of Qufada, where he is from. After half an hour’s drive through bumpy roads and narrow streets, we reached his church.

 The church in Qufada

The priest gently called Sheikh Hamdi to join us. I was a bit surprised at the way they were talking to each other through the phone, but also by their chemistry when Sheikh Hamdi arrived.  The two men were teasing each other so naturally!  In front me were two religious men dressed differently, laughing out loud with each other, speaking completely casually, no shyness--just two human beings, just two old friends reconnecting. Soon, Abuna Yo’annis left us in his office as he needed to lead the morning mass.  We then began our interview with Sheikh Hamdi. These two men have been friends for a while. Their lives have been connected  long before their birth; their fathers and grandfathers were friends, so naturally they grew up together and consider themselves as brothers.

Following this interview, Abuna Yo’annis came back from the mass. I continued to exchange with Sheikh Hamdi  while the lunch was served for Shen and Abuna Yo’annis.  Sheikh Hamdi and I wouldn’t partake  as we were fasting for the holy month of Ramadan. After the lunch, Shen and I went for a quick tour in the church. The people working there were curious to get to know us, and willing to give explanations on the different icons found in the Church.

   From left to right: Dina Bouchkouch, Shen Shangyun, Father Yo'annis, Shaykh Hamdi

and a church worker.

Next we went back to Maghagha to meet with the Bishop Aghathon. Unfortunately he was on a trip to  Cairo, so we met with  his deputy Father Azra instead. We presented to the priest a donation from the Dutch Christian Reformed Church in Den Haag to the families of the victims of the bus attack. In addition, we discussed relations between Christians and Muslims in Maghagha and the wider region.  According to Father Azra, there is no need to build relations between both communities since Muslims and Christians have been living together harmoniously in Maghagha for so long that building bridges isn’t necessary; they are already there. According to Father Azra, after the bus attack, the Muslim inhabitants of Maghagha naturally offered their condolences to the Christian victims’ families. I strongly felt that in Maghagha people have transcended the identitarian concept of Muslim/Christian in their understanding of each other; everyone is seen as a human being. People are dealing with each other according to one’s mind, and not one’s religious identity.

After this meeting, Shen and I departed for Dayr al-Garnous, a small Christian village, to visit families of the bus attack victims. This part of the journey was the most intense for me. I felt deeply sorry and sad for the families, but knowing that I wouldn’t be able to fully understand what they are going through made me anxious. Thus, I was more than grateful when Mina, a young ecclesiastic who speaks English came with us.  He advised us on how to speak with the families. He told us to keep in mind that, yes the families mourn for their lost loved ones, but they are happy because they know that they are now  martyrs  in  heaven. I found this a little disturbing. Though this state of mind as a believer is a comforting and helpful  way to overcome loss,  I thought it seemed  to be more of a gear for bereaved people to control their sadness or anger. We visited three families. The three men who passed away were all farmers. They were the ones who financially supported   their families, and all of them were together on their way to the monastery when the terrorists shot them after asking them to renounce their Christian faith.

Father Ishaq, widow Fayza, her daughter Marina and her brothers and sister with Dina Bouchkouch and Shen Shangyun.

The three families are honestly going through a hard time. They are simple people who don’t have much, but they still hope for the best. Fayza is one of the widows. She has four children (2 boys and 2 girls). One of her girls has a mental disability, and she doesn’t receive any treatment for that. Marina, the eldest is 14 years old.  Marina truly broke my heart. Fayza told us that Marina didn’t have a lot of energy since she lost her father. I could see through her pale face and her wet eyes that she is going through one of the hardest experiences of her life. On the one hand, I wanted to tell her that everything will get better soon, and that she needs to be strong. On the other hand, I didn’t know how to tell her this. How can I tell someone that everything will get better when some stupid people are under the conviction that they have the right to take some else’s  life?!  I hugged her before leaving and repeated in a confused way that I was sorry. It is pretty hard to be there in front of people who have lost their loved ones, killed by a fool who pretended to share the same religion as myself. I felt truly ashamed and guilty that leaders aren’t able to protect their own people. Egypt is the nation of all Egyptians no matter what their beliefs

Cairo, June 14, 2017

Dina Bouchkouch

Editor: we regret Dina's internship is ending today. She completed her internship and most appreciate all she has done for the Center for Arab-West Understanding and fostering dialogue and understanding between people of different cultures and convictions!

Dina Bouchkouch is a Moroccan-French student of Foreign Applied Languages, English - Arabic, specialized in International Relations at the University of Bordeaux and interns at the Center for Arab-West Understanding.