Background:
Reverend Dr. Samuel Ḥabīb was an evangelical pastor and founder of the Coptic Evangelical Organization for Social Services (CEOSS). It was a very well planned organization, says Ḥabīb, and he employed a man from the United States to work with him on a plan for a special gathering. Most people were concerned about Muslim-Christian relations. The conference was organized by Ḥabīb and Shaykh Ṭanṭāwī. The conference was filmed and some fragments were shown in Saudi Arabia and Jordan which gave a well-organized and positive image of the dialogue-orientated conference. The conference was held in January 1995.
Side A:
In some areas, Ṭanṭāwī and Ḥabīb agreed, but Ḥabīb says what he liked about Ṭanṭāwī is that he is open to issues that are presented for the first time in the present age in the history of Islam. Ḥabīb is referring to the issues of bank interest and female genital circumcision. According to Ḥabīb, Ṭanṭāwī was the first to come out and bluntly say that bank interest is not a sin. Ḥabīb asked him about his statements and was told that Ṭanṭāwī met with heads of banks in Cairo and studied the information he retrieved from them as well as the Sharīʿah Law. When he decided the issue of bank interest is not ḥarām, Ḥabīb argues that it was a struggle for him to finally reach this point.
As for female circumcision, Shaykh Ṭanṭāwī said that this is an issue that needs to be studied by a doctor and if the doctor says it is harmful, and then we should support that. He also said it was not mentioned in the Sunnah. Reverend Ḥabīb perceives the shaykh to be open-minded as he interpreted the issue of female circumcision to be something medical and not religious. Ḥabīb believes Ṭanṭāwī is trying to find a balance between Islamic fundamentals and modern age issues and says that he is the first one to come up with certain issues of similar understanding in Islam since prominent leaders like Jamāl al-Dīn al-Afghānī and Muḥammad ʿAbduh. Ḥabīb says he admires Ṭanṭāwī for his open-mindedness.
Besides Ṭanṭāwī, Rajab al-Bannā, the editor-in-chief of October Magazine, was also invited to join the conference. Al-Bannā is a prominent Muslim leader, journalist and good friend of Ḥabīb. The men met Reverend Dr. Victor Makārī in the States, who taught Islamists and so knows Islam very well. He acted as the translator for Ṭanṭāwī. Ḥabīb says the atmosphere at the conference was more than friendly and says it was very wasy to make contact with Ṭanṭāwī. Although Ṭanṭāwī was advised to bring along security because he might be at risk of an attack of extremist groups, he decided to travel without.
The American Coptic Association is a very radical organization and apparently responded negatively to Ḥabīb’s visit to America. Ḥabīb says the organization accused him of being the Anti-Christ because he took the mufti along with him. He was also verbally attacked on several occasions. Ḥabīb believes the most important thing is thinking about how to live together and one can only do that through tolerance.
Christians and Muslims live together in many places in Egypt; they live in the same streets and in the same apartment blocks, but Ḥabīb argues that due to unemployment levels, many turn to extremism. It is also a way of understanding religion; not all extremists are extremists because they are unemployed. Some of them are extremists because this is simply their belief, so extremists are partly fundamentalists and could lead to aggression because of the insecurities in their lives. Their main opposition is the government because they wish for it to become an Islamic government that will adopt their ideas. If they are unable of reaching the government, that is when they turn to weaker targets such as Christians or liberal Muslims, but their main goal of attack is the government. Extremists wanted to attack Najīb Maḥfūẓ because of his controversial books which were not in line with the thoughts and values of the extremists.
Side B:
Other issues which were discussed with Shaykh Ṭanṭāwī were the reported kidnappings of Christian girls. Ḥabīb says that these girls are reported as kidnapped, but he studied various cases and found not one of these girls were indeed kidnapped. He says the word kidnap is used as an honourable way to save the face of the Christian family. A young man and a young woman falling in love from different regions, different backgrounds and different religions is not kidnap. The family of the girl usually claims their girl to be kidnapped, but in Ḥabīb’s understanding, there was not a single case of actual kidnap, but many of young girls wanting to convert out of love. In some families, a young woman is not properly treated, sometimes she is dehumanised and so she wants to leave her home and find refuge with some else. Churches as well as Muslim communities need to study this issue carefully according to Ḥabīb, and have dialogue on how to deal with interfaith marriages. It is an important issue both religions need to deal with in the future.
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In an interview with political activist and Islamist, Majdī Ḥussaīn, Cornelis Hulsman brings up the issue of martyrdom and says that Hamas is widely perceived as shuhadāʾ (martyrs). Shaykh Ṭanṭāwī, on the other hand does not believe in the violence of Hamas and does not consider them shuhadāʾ. He says the issue of Hamas is less complicated than the issue of Egypt’s al-Jamāʿah al-Islāmiyya because Hamas is fighting occupiers (the Israelis) and al-Jamāʿah al-Islāmiyya is fighting the government. Ḥussaīn, argues that the problem of Hamas is that most Arab countries believe that Hamas are martyrs, not just Kuwait, but also people in Egypt. That is the opinion of the majority in Egypt and says Ṭanṭāwī’s view is incorrect. Hulsman responds by asking what about the violence in Egypt caused by al-Jamāʿah al-Islāmiyya. When are their actions justified, and when are they not? Ḥussaīn says he does not agree with the violence of the group but believes they should respond to the government through peaceful movement to encourage people to act. Ḥussaīn says he and his party want to liberate the people. Terrorism and violence has risen as a reaction to the cruel campaign of the government and he interprets the actions of the terrorist groups like this, but he says he does not agree with it. It is so dangerous that the government itself violated the law and constitution, but arrests moderate Islamists every day who do not practice such violence, Ḥussaīn adds.
