Background:
Between al-Qūṣiyya, Upper Egypt, and the Monastery of The Holy Virgin Mary or Dayr al-Muḥarraq, in the governorate of Asyut, lies the predominantly Christian village of al-Saraqnā. The village of around 10,000 inhabitants is peaceful but yet overpopulation creates a tremendous strain on the limited resources of the village. I have been interviewing Rāmiz Ikrām Fahīm Ghābyūs, the village head or al-ʿUmda in Arabic, with Austrian-American filmmaker and friend Norbert Schiller and his colleague Dana Smillie on April 10. This interview was carried out in Arabic and recorded. Jeanne Middelstaedt-Rizkallah translated. Between brackets are some explanatory comments. This interview was conducted on April 10, 2015 but placed online on July 24, 2016 in preparation for a visit of student interns to al-Saraqnā on July 29-30, 2016.
Transcript:
Q.: The patterns of the streets around an old church and the fact they are situated on top of a “terp” indicate this is an old village. What is the history of this village?
A: The old houses of al-Saraqnā extended over 5 acres, but I would not be able to tell when they were built. But it is one of the oldest villages in the district of al-Qūṣiyya. Nevertheless, I am able to tell when the first ʿUmda was elected.
Q: Who was the first ʿUmda of al-Saraqnā?
A: The first ʿumda was Butrus Ḥannā Manṣūr, who was elected as mayor to his village in 1911.His father was then judge in the Mixed Court of the City of Manfalūṭ, Governorate of Assiut. The second Omda was my grand father Fahīm Ghābyūs Ṣalīb, elected as mayor in 1949. My father,
Ikrām Fahīm Ghābyūs, was then the third headman of al-Saraqnā in 1978. I am the fourth mayor, since 2009.
(JR: Mixed Courts were founded in Egypt in 1875 by Khedive Ismail with the intention of streamlining the legal issues between foreign nationals, and between foreigners and Egyptians. In 1949, the functions of Mixed Courts were transferred to new National Courts.)
Q.: What is the landmark of al-Saraqnā?
A.: The Mar Girgis (St. George) church is the first landmark [in the region] after the Dayr al-Muḥarraq. Another landmark is the percentage of educated people of al-Saraqnā, which, in comparison to other neighbouring villages is very high. We also have the highest number of young people, in the district of al-Qūṣiyya, who left to work abroad, to Italy, U.S.A., Greece, France, Kuwait.
Q: Do you see a problem with a kind of a brain drain? Everybody who is educated eventually leaves? Would it not be better for al-Saraqnā that educated people stay here to serve their village?
A: Where can these people earn enough money to face increasing living expenses? There are no jobs here. They need to feed their families. Besides, not only highly educated people have left. Many people who did not graduate from universities, also farmers, sought jobs outside the village, outside the whole country. They left for Arab countries, such as Kuwait. The incomes earned abroad in hard currency serves the village as well. All these new houses you see here, have been financed by these incomes earned abroad.
Q: What do you think of a kind of a small Christian Exodus leaving Egypt to Europe and to the USA, because of economic or political reasons? How is that affecting this village?
A: Many Muslims have left Egypt as well, to Saudi Arabia, to Kuwait. Most of the Egyptians, whether Muslims or Christians, left Egypt to earn their living. It is true that many events urged Christians to leave Egypt in the aftermath of the January 25 Revolution. But most of them came back, after the situation in the country stabilised somewhat since President Al-Sissi. On the contrary, international investment projects in Egypt or in the Golf countries are increasing and are promising for the future of the region.
Q: We have asked many people for the meaning of the name al-Saraqnā but do not get clear answers. People do not seem to know. Do you know what the name al-Saraqnā means?
A: The word “Saraqnā” has got many meanings. Some say that some people have been robbed. In Arabic the first part of the word “saraq” means “robbed”, the second part “na” means “we have been robbed; so “we have been robbed' was extended by people who were passing the village, and have been robbed on their way. My father made his own research and found out that the word means “walking through the night”. But it is best to ask the National Archives in Cairo.
(Note of the translator: a further meaning could mean “ preserved from the illusion of fata morgana”).
Q: How important is the Holy Family journey visit to the village of al-Saraqnā and its people?
A: It is told that the Holy Family during their path in Upper Egypt, has stopped at al-Saraqnā on their way to the place where the Dayr Al-Muharraq has later been built in commemoration to this visit. It is said that the Holy Virgin Mary drank from a well that was on the west side of the village. The well doesn't exist anymore, the whole landscape has changed.
Q: How important is this journey for the people? And is it still considered a bless nowadays?
A: Of course; it is a great honour for the village to have had the Holy Family and the Blessed Virgin dwelling here. The wealth the village enjoys is thanks to this blessed place.
Q: What does it mean to be ʿumda, what role does he play?
A: In early times, people candidate for this position, and the one who won the majority of voices became the ʿumda. But nowadays, Village Heads (ʿumad) are appointed by the Ministry of Interior. He has specific responsibilities, such as mediating between discussants, solving disputes between different parties, also disputes among family members. In case he fails to solve such problems on a friendly basis, he reports in order to have the problem solved in legal ways. He has also the task of reporting corruption of governmental officers, or calling the prosecution when crimes are committed, to contact the ambulance in cases of injuries that occur due to accidents.
Q: What was the general climate among the people of the village when the January 25 Revolution happened?
A: There was fear and anxiety for not knowing where the country is heading to. Thanks God, these hard times are now over. The Military Forces and the Judges, [JR: The Egyptian political street talk of these two being the major pillars of the country], have remained stable despite all. The country is now in a better situation than before.
Q.: But why was there fear among the people with the outburst of the revolution?
A: There was chaos all over. The building of the National Democratic Party had been burned down, the media reported on January 27, 2011 of “a breakdown of security”, everyone should be afraid. No police protecting the streets, no president ruling, cases of people being kidnapped or killed, roads being ruled by burglars and criminals, all this made the people feel anxious.
Q.: What was the feeling in al-Saraqnā in particular when President Mursī was elected, and what was the feeling when he left after one year?
A.: In my opinion, the country had witnessed a much greater deterioration than it had experienced during the ruling of Mubārak. The Revolution had many negative aspects as well. In fact, President al-Sīsī is trying to rectify deficiencies that hit the country for more than 30 years. I pray to God to safe and protect him, along with our Army.
Q: Al-Saraqnā is a predominantly Christian village; what went through their minds when Pope Tawadros went on television to support the ousting of Mursī on July 3, and then there was a big chaos all over the country, and what was the feeling here in the village, when 60 churches were burnt down, almost 50 homes have been destroyed?
A.: When Sissi announced in a televised address Mursī’s overthrow on July 3, he was flanked by
Pope Tawāḍrūs II along with Muslim religious leaders and political figures. All moderate Egyptians who want the country to stabilise, were of course very happy that Mursī was ousted. But despite the Rābiʿa al-ʿAdawiya events and despite the fact that 60 churches were burnt down, people were confident that the country will progress to better. Pope Tawāḍrūs himself said that if the price for Egypt to prosper is the burning of these churches, then the sacrifice was worth it. Today the Ministry of Interior responds swiftly to claims that jeopardise the security of the country. Without security, neither investment nor economy will be able to rise and stabilise. In fact, all damaged churches have been restored and renewed.
Q: Al-Saraqnā is an old village, its architecture is very old; but there are new buildings they built from the money of the people working abroad. What happens that changes the character of the village?
A.: The house building had undergone dramatic physical changes. Most of the houses were built using mud brick [JR: made of excess mud from agricultural land) . But this is not the case anymore, city-like housing styles dominate the landscape, concrete is used instead of mud bricks. Even our traditions have changed: peasants used to bake their own bread. Traditionally most inhabitants lived from farming but that has become more and more difficult. We became simply consumers, just like in the urban areas.
Q: Did the role of the ʿumda change as well?
A.: The tasks of the ʿumda have not changed: he still plays an important role in mediating between disputing parties.
Q. Norbert: Do you remember the last flood before the High Dam was constructed?
A: I was born in 1977. So I haven't seen the village affected by the flood, and eventually haven't witnessed the mud that enriched the fertile soil necessary for the irrigation of the land.
Q. Norbert: I have been told by a very good source that the mentality of the Egyptians changed when the Nile stopped flooding; this village was an island. Did you hear of that from your father or grand-father?
A: Yes, my father used to tell me that the village was surrounded by water during the flood of the Nile. Since the erection of the High Dam, the Nile flood was controlled, and eventually, roads, fabrics, and houses could be erected on a larger space. The High Dam has affected all villages, not only al-Saraqnā.
Q. Norbert: How old is al-Saraqnā?
A: I don't know really.
Q. Cornelis: What is the earliest existing document in the archive of al-Saraqnā?
A: I have been told that the church of Mar Girgis (St. George) is the oldest monument of the village. As oldest document, as far as I know, is the first map of al-Saraqnā which was drawn by the British dating back to 1905.
Q: How do you see the future of al-Saraqnā?
A: The expansion of housing, which are actually built on the expenses of the agricultural space. There is no other alternative for earning a living than working abroad. The number of population is rapidly increasing and eventually violating the increasingly narrowing agricultural spot. There is no other way of investment except building houses. This is anyway the future of all villages, not only al-Saraqnā. The population of al-Saraqnā is maybe increasing in a lesser speed than in other places.
Q: What would you recommend to improve the economy of al-Saraqnā? To keep people here instead of working abroad?
A: People, who do not have family members working abroad, make eighty percent of al-Saraqnā who depend on farming and agriculture. But it is not enough to face the raising living expenses. I am one among these eighty percent. But the violation of the agricultural area is certainly a crime that should be punished by harsher laws. The major source for a living comes from people working abroad.
Q. Norbert: Did you experience any sectarian tensions?
A: Priests in churches as well as Imams in mosques are making their communities aware of sectarianism whose flame some try to fan; besides, the government reacts promptly against anyone who attempt to incite sectarian violence. This is a good thing, especially that Muslims and Christians have lived here peacefully together for centuries.
For more information about al-Saraqnā, please see these articles:
Visiting Assiut, the diocese of al-Qussia and the Monastery of al-Muharraq: http://arabwestreport.info/en/visiting-assiut-diocese-al-qussia-and-mona...
Celebrating Palm Sunday in the streets of Sarakna; The last remains of a once widespread Christian tradition: http://arabwestreport.info/en/year-2001/week-15/15-celebrating-palm-sund...
Recent Developments: http://arabwestreport.info/en/year-2002/week-16/1-recent-developments
The Holy Family's visit and the monastery of Dayr al-Muḥarraq: http://www.arabwestreport.info/en/holy-family%E2%80%99s-visit-and-monast...
An Upper Egyptian Wedding: http://arabwestreport.info/en/upper-egyptian-wedding
Saraqna, the migration story of one village: http://arabwestreport.info/en/saraqna-migration-story-one-village
