This article is a debate between the leader of the Dutch liberal party, Frits Bolkestein and the Islamic thinker Muhammad Arkoun. Arkoun states that there is a difference between open-minded tolerant secularism and dogmatic closed-minded secularism that opposes any kind of religiosity. The French mind, he believes, is more influenced by the latter, which is why the French have a strong and antagonistic reaction toward any overt or public expression of religion.