Rev. Safwat al-Bayyādī presents his views on peacemaking through education, training, and personal involvement. He also discusses the value of religious initiatives to promote peace.
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On November 18, 2009 I had a chance to interview Rev. Safwat al-Bayyādī, President of the Protestant Churches of Egypt, in his office in Ramses College. We discussed issues related to reconciliation and peace building in Egypt, concerning both his own initiatives and his comments on our proposals at the Center for Arab West Understanding (CAWU), in which he is a member. The following is a summary of our conversation.
To open our discussion I informed Rev. al-Bayyādī of the progress made in our peacemaking project, as well as some of the obstacles we still face. I emphasized our desire to move beyond the fair and unbiased reporting of the news which our center has engaged in for over fifteen years, so that we might also take a proactive role in helping conflicting parties reconcile. Rev. al-Bayyādī appreciated this emphasis, and while admitting it was a very sensitive area, remarked that we might have success due to the hard-won respect Mr. Hulsman, founder and secretary-general of CAWU, earned through his faithful and transparent work on behalf of Egyptian society.
Rev. al-Bayyādī then commented on his own efforts toward peacemaking, specifically through education. The Evangelical Church in Egypt operates Ramses College and other evangelical schools in Egypt, for which he is the chief executive officer. He hopes, however, that the Ministry of Education will approve its current efforts to build private, non-sectarian schools throughout Egypt, to be governed locally by joint committees of Muslims and Christians. Rev. al-Bayyādī believes that rote systems of memorization are traditionally employed throughout Egypt, and he even has to constantly combat this at his own school. Students, however, should be developed toward independent thinking and research at an early age, but this is impossible when many schools have between fifty and one hundred students per class. He is hopeful these proposed new schools can engender a true academic spirit throughout Egypt, especially in the countryside.
The educational benefit aside, Rev. al-Bayyādī believes the school can be an agent for community change and development. He intends for each school to have an attached community center, in which local people can meet and discuss their conflicts and concerns. All involved—teachers, students, and willing parents—will be trained in peace studies, which will hopefully affect the general quality of life in the countryside and curb the rush to violence and judgment which often characterizes the people there. Furthermore, these community centers can be utilized more than any church or mosque, and people will develop skills in peacemaking without any sermonizing.
This last point is important because Rev. al-Bayyādī describes Egypt as having a culture of tribes, especially in Upper Egypt. Though religious figures are important, it is the heads of households which make decisions and enforce adherence. If these come together and say, “Let the Christians build a church,” not only will it be built but all members of the village will contribute; the same applies for mosque building. Rev. al-Bayyādī can envision a future in which the children of these community leaders attend the schools, through whom the message of peace can trickle up.
At this point I commented on some of our own findings which were in agreement with this idea. In a recent survey of priests in the Bishopric of Biba and al-Fashn we discovered a positive correlation between improving relationships between Muslims and Christians and the presence of a cordial relationship between the imam and the priest. Though consisting of only a small sample size, this finding encouraged us to focus on this relationship for the building of peace.
Our advisors, however, challenged this correlation. While not denying the positive effect of good relations between a village imam and priest, they said that the most vital relationships are between the village heads of households, in agreement with the analysis of Rev. al-Bayyādī. I then asked him, even so, what influence can the local religious leaders have on community relationships and the crafting of peace?
Rev. al-Bayyādī spoke of two realities in Egypt. The overarching quality of Egypt is that it is a religious society. Yet at the same time, the strong identity with one’s religion does not necessarily translate into moral behavior or attendance at a house of worship. He gave the example of a village Christian who murdered his sister and her Muslim husband, because it was against his personal religious honor for his family member to have married outside the Christian faith. This Christian man, he related, did not attend church, nor was he religious in his day-to-day life. Yet he was driven to kill for an essentially religious motivation. Though this is an extreme case, the dichotomy between religious identity and behavior is characteristic of many Egyptians, especially in Upper Egypt.
So on the one hand, if a religious figure says something, it will likely be ignored. On the other hand, the Egyptians who are more traditionally religious are often simple and uneducated, and will attach great importance to whatever their imam or priest preaches. When these communicate hatred or violence or separatism, the damage can be great. If they can communicate love, tolerance, and acceptance, however, there is hope of good relations.
Rev. al-Bayyādī spoke in this regard of the positive, though limited, efforts of some like the Coptic Evangelical Organization for Social Services (CEOSS) to create relationships of friendship between imams, priests, and pastors. CEOSS will host conferences and workshops for religious leaders throughout Egypt, and even isolate these individuals one-to-one in an empty room to force communication and relationship building. There has been a good reception of this initiative, and real friendships have developed.
Nevertheless, it is unclear if there is a positive impact in society. After initially participating, many Orthodox priests withdrew due to time constraints. In addition these sessions are often attended by the same group of religious leaders, which is natural since by now they all enjoy meeting together and renewing their relationships. Religious leaders also have learned to talk nicely with each other, and it is unknown if they actively communicate the message of peace from their pulpits. Still, such efforts are good and necessary, even if they are limited.
Based on his comments I proceeded to ask about these Muslim and Christian leaders who have been trained. Would he know of any who would be willing to travel to Upper Egypt after a conflict and help in reconciliation? Especially if they are connected prominently to the church or Islamic institutions in Cairo, they might be afforded moral authority by the villagers currently at odds with one another.
Rev. al-Bayyādī listed some of the names of those involved with whom I might follow up on this question, but he wondered about the efficacy. The problem specifically is that these are too far away to be of immediate good. By the time they arrived people may have already been killed or imprisoned, and then the lines of communication will have been hardened beyond repair. What would be better is the direct training of individuals, not leaders, for these are able to get involved at the onset of an issue, even to prevent its escalation. This brought back his attention to this issue of schools, to be a broad based strategy for transforming society. Rev. al-Bayyādī mentioned that Egypt was almost to the point of an attitude of separation, like Abraham and Lot, in which due to their conflicts one was to go to the left, and the other to the right. It is with the children that the best hope lies.
I accepted the importance of his words, but focused on the particular. What about the necessary reconciliation of people following specific incidents? What can be done to help spread the message of peace among those in conflict?
Rev. al-Bayyādī mentioned a story which took place in his school, illustrating that the work of reconciliation required much personal investment in time, patience, communication, and firmness. The incident took place between two children of educated families, in which one picked on the smaller, slapping him three times while the assaulted could hit back only once. The children were separated and punished, but the parents of the smaller child were incensed. It was not so much that their child was a victim of bullying, but that he was prevented from striking back equally. Submitting to the joint punishment given by the headmistress meant that their son was in a position of weakness, and they refused that he give up his right of retaliation.
After many hours in conference together, Rev. al-Bayyādī told the parents that if they were this upset at the perceived injustice, they should take their child out of the school. This was not to remove a problem, however, it was for the good of the institution. He told the parents directly, if you child continues down this road in which you are guiding him, he will wind up either dead, or in prison for killing another. I do not want this future to impact my school.
The impact of these sharp words seemed to cut through the defenses of the parents. They responded positively, offering their apologies, even going directly for this to the headmistress. They spoke that these words were necessary to protect their children, and they were glad to be in a school which would cultivate this message. If Rev. al-Bayyādī were ever to write a book, they would like to have a copy.
Without offering specifics, this is what Rev. al-Bayyādī said was necessary in the work of reconciliation. Such efforts cannot be offered from Cairo, they can only be developed among local leaders. He encouraged us in our work to see that this message could be delivered.
Before closing our interview Rev. al-Bayyādī delivered a message to the Christians of Egypt. He spoke of a certain Egyptian preacher who delivered a message declaring the importance of loving one’s enemies. Following the address a reporter asked him how the message of love could be communicated while the church allowed unspecified priests to criticize Islam with impunity. The ire of the priest was raised, and he responded angrily, “And what about all your preachers who spew hatred and disrespect upon Christianity every Friday? You get them to stop, and then we will get him to stop!”
Rev. al-Bayyādī commented that this priest failed his own test. Ostensibly, he was preaching a message of love toward one’s enemies. When challenged, however, he displayed little of that love, and instead insisted that before we can take any measures to love, you must clean your house first. Yet how can ‘the enemy’ be challenged to love unless he is first demonstrated a spirit of love in tangible service? Christians in Egypt are greatly struggling in this regard.
Finally, I asked Rev. al-Bayyādī who in Egypt, besides himself, is both preaching and demonstrating this message, especially from within Islam. He replied quickly that the Grand Imām, Shaykh Muhammad Sayyid al-Tantāwī, exhibits the priority of peace and reconciliation in both his words and actions, declaring to the Christians, “Let us deal in mercy, let us deal in peace.” He mentioned also that he had good relations with the Grand Muftī, Shaykh ‘Alī Jum‘ah, and that among Orthodox Christians both Bishop Marqus of Shubrā al-Khaymah and Bishop Besenti of Hilwān will sacrifice in order to communicate this message. To close, I thanked Rev. al-Bayyādī for his time, and wished him success in building the necessary bridges on which peace may be established. May the number of his colleagues exponentially increase.
